Post by Disgruntled Powerseller on Jul 7, 2008 18:29:45 GMT -5
AMAZING! This could very well be why eBay refuses to pro-actively eliminate the selling of counterfit items on its site.
Read the article below, then take a look at this website, forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/paypal-wants-the-fake-chanel-309773.html.
Where Do eBay Fakes Go to Die?
www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y08/m07/i02/s01
Why does PayPal ask buyers to send counterfeit merchandise purchased on eBay to a warehouse in Texas belonging to a liquidator? That's the question some eBay members are asking, and some are questioning whether PayPal is directing the liquidator to resell counterfeit items rather than destroying them.
"The Purse Forum," an online discussion board calling itself a "community for handbag lovers and shoulder fashion fetishists," has an active discussion in which users speculate Liquidity Services is reselling counterfeits on their site on PayPal's behalf. The person who started the thread about PayPal's request for her to send a fake Chanel handbag (in its original condition) to Liquidity Service's address in Texas later wrote to say she had filed a complaint with the FBI over the matter.
One buyer who wrote to AuctionBytes had similar concerns. "I became suspicious as to why (PayPal) would want the bags in original condition. Why wouldn't they want me to cut the handles in half or put a big black X on the outside with permanent marker?" she asked.
In response to an inquiry about these claims, Liquidity Services spokesperson Julie Davis told AuctionBytes, "If we receive goods from PayPal that have evidence of or are suspected to be counterfeit, they are destroyed. Liquidation.com would not knowingly sell counterfeit goods in our marketplace."
PayPal explained why it was working with Liquidity Services and how the "Significantly Not as Described" (SNAD) claims process works. Spokesperson Michael Oldenburg said PayPal works with the liquidation firm in a very limited number of cases in Buyer Protection claims where the buyer has filed a Significantly Not as Described claim, and the buyer and seller cannot work it out. "We usually encourage the buyer to return the merchandise to the seller," Oldenburg said.
In cases where they buyer doesn't want to return the merchandise to the seller, or the seller doesn't want the merchandise back, PayPal compensates both parties, he said. In those cases, PayPal asks the buyer to send the merchandise to Liquidity Services.
Liquidity Services does not act as an authenticator, Oldenburg said, and what happens to the item in Texas then depends on the type of SNAD claim. If there is an accusation that the item was counterfeit, PayPal says it directs Liquidity Services to destroy the item. Otherwise, Liquidity Services liquidates the item on its own marketplace. "That helps us recover some of our losses because, as I mentioned before, we've already paid out both the buyer and the seller."
However, claims are handled differently if the buyer initiates a chargeback with their credit card company.
"PayPal agents work with sellers, and we advocate on their behalf," Oldenburg said. If the seller can prove the item is authentic, they can give that proof to PayPal who will give it to the credit card company. But if the credit card company sides with the buyer, PayPal complies and withdraws the money from the seller's account.
However, Oldenburg said, sellers in that case can request that PayPal return the item to them if the buyer sends the item to Liquidity Services. "If the situation is a credit card chargeback, the credit card company works with the buyer to have him or her return the merchandise either directly to the seller or to PayPal via Liquidity Services. The buyer is usually required by his or her credit card company to provide proof that the item has been returned." The exception is if the claim is for a counterfeit item, he said.
"We always encourage people to use the online dispute resolution center," Oldenburg said, adding that PayPal tries to facilitate a dialog between the buyer and the seller so they can come to a mutual resolution.
Previous 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 ... 12 Next See last post
471 replies Date posted Reply #
tehart (185 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 01:36 PDT 1 of 471
Okay, a few things struck me as odd.
In cases where they buyer doesn't want to return the merchandise to the seller, or the seller doesn't want the merchandise back, PayPal compensates both parties, he said. In those cases, PayPal asks the buyer to send the merchandise to Liquidity Services.
When did this start? I have never, in all my time being associated with eBay/PayPal, heard that the seller can recoup the money PayPal takes from him/her by simply requesting
AMAZING! This could very well be why eBay refuses to pro-actively eliminate the selling of counterfit items on its site.
Read the article below, then take a look at this website, forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/paypal-wants-the-fake-chanel-309773.html.
Where Do eBay Fakes Go to Die?
www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y08/m07/i02/s01
Why does PayPal ask buyers to send counterfeit merchandise purchased on eBay to a warehouse in Texas belonging to a liquidator? That's the question some eBay members are asking, and some are questioning whether PayPal is directing the liquidator to resell counterfeit items rather than destroying them.
"The Purse Forum," an online discussion board calling itself a "community for handbag lovers and shoulder fashion fetishists," has an active discussion in which users speculate Liquidity Services is reselling counterfeits on their site on PayPal's behalf. The person who started the thread about PayPal's request for her to send a fake Chanel handbag (in its original condition) to Liquidity Service's address in Texas later wrote to say she had filed a complaint with the FBI over the matter.
One buyer who wrote to AuctionBytes had similar concerns. "I became suspicious as to why (PayPal) would want the bags in original condition. Why wouldn't they want me to cut the handles in half or put a big black X on the outside with permanent marker?" she asked.
In response to an inquiry about these claims, Liquidity Services spokesperson Julie Davis told AuctionBytes, "If we receive goods from PayPal that have evidence of or are suspected to be counterfeit, they are destroyed. Liquidation.com would not knowingly sell counterfeit goods in our marketplace."
PayPal explained why it was working with Liquidity Services and how the "Significantly Not as Described" (SNAD) claims process works. Spokesperson Michael Oldenburg said PayPal works with the liquidation firm in a very limited number of cases in Buyer Protection claims where the buyer has filed a Significantly Not as Described claim, and the buyer and seller cannot work it out. "We usually encourage the buyer to return the merchandise to the seller," Oldenburg said.
In cases where they buyer doesn't want to return the merchandise to the seller, or the seller doesn't want the merchandise back, PayPal compensates both parties, he said. In those cases, PayPal asks the buyer to send the merchandise to Liquidity Services.
Liquidity Services does not act as an authenticator, Oldenburg said, and what happens to the item in Texas then depends on the type of SNAD claim. If there is an accusation that the item was counterfeit, PayPal says it directs Liquidity Services to destroy the item. Otherwise, Liquidity Services liquidates the item on its own marketplace. "That helps us recover some of our losses because, as I mentioned before, we've already paid out both the buyer and the seller."
However, claims are handled differently if the buyer initiates a chargeback with their credit card company.
"PayPal agents work with sellers, and we advocate on their behalf," Oldenburg said. If the seller can prove the item is authentic, they can give that proof to PayPal who will give it to the credit card company. But if the credit card company sides with the buyer, PayPal complies and withdraws the money from the seller's account.
However, Oldenburg said, sellers in that case can request that PayPal return the item to them if the buyer sends the item to Liquidity Services. "If the situation is a credit card chargeback, the credit card company works with the buyer to have him or her return the merchandise either directly to the seller or to PayPal via Liquidity Services. The buyer is usually required by his or her credit card company to provide proof that the item has been returned." The exception is if the claim is for a counterfeit item, he said.
"We always encourage people to use the online dispute resolution center," Oldenburg said, adding that PayPal tries to facilitate a dialog between the buyer and the seller so they can come to a mutual resolution.
Previous 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 ... 12 Next See last post
471 replies Date posted Reply #
tehart (185 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 01:36 PDT 1 of 471
Okay, a few things struck me as odd.
In cases where they buyer doesn't want to return the merchandise to the seller, or the seller doesn't want the merchandise back, PayPal compensates both parties, he said. In those cases, PayPal asks the buyer to send the merchandise to Liquidity Services.
When did this start? I have never, in all my time being associated with eBay/PayPal, heard that the seller can recoup the money PayPal takes from him/her by simply requesting
Nancy..
Can you back that up? I can't. The website for the company doesn't show they do any verification process nor do they mention any destruction of counterfeits or any such process.
Could you please find for us, where on walmart.com, bestbuy.com or any other consumer outlet for goods, where it states that they destroy recalled goods, or how they go about doing so. Or how they handled returned, defective goods?
We'll wait for you to provide this information for us. Hurry back now.
*shakes head at such unknowledgeable participants to these boards, simply spreading incorrect information on a daily basis*
christmascruise (521 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:03 PDT 81 of 471
If you feel you've been victimized in a fraud scheme that involves the U.S. Mail, submit a Mail Fraud Complaint Form to the U.S. Postal Inspection Service
postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MailFraudComplaint.aspx
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:04 PDT 82 of 471
Let me repost this for those who missed it and tell me, who is doing the verification of it being a knock off?
Liquidity Services does not act as an authenticator, Oldenburg said, and what happens to the item in Texas then depends on the type of SNAD claim. If there is an accusation that the item was counterfeit, PayPal says it directs Liquidity Services to destroy the item. Otherwise, Liquidity Services liquidates the item on its own marketplace. "That helps us recover some of our losses because, as I mentioned before, we've already paid out both the buyer and the seller."
christmascruise (521 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:05 PDT 83 of 471
yoursurplusstore, If you're trying to draw other compnies into this discussion, Could you please find for us, where on walmart.com, bestbuy.com or any other consumer outlet for goods, deal in COUNTERFEIT ITEMS?
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:05 PDT 84 of 471
And they do resell some of it, so obviously not all are fakes or they were not being honest that they destroy what paypal sends them.
How do you conclude that mess from:
"If we receive goods from PayPal that have evidence of or are suspected to be counterfeit, they are destroyed."
Where is it stated they destroy everything sent to them?
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:05 PDT 85 of 471
As a matter of fact in cases where the buyer can supply documentation proving the item was fake, buyers are given the choice to send the item to Paypal or Send the item to the Police or Prosecutor.
Some companies will seize the item, there has been several post where a buyer took a purse in to be authenticated and the store refused to return it.
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turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:06 PDT 86 of 471
Nancy, you seem to be missing my posts.
My experience was that a 3rd party had to submit a letter to PP backing up my claim. My say-so wasn't enough. This was a fairly recent transaction (last 6 months). I believe the SNAD policy for counterfeits changed fairly recently to include the "may request 3rd party...". For me, they sure did.
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:08 PDT 87 of 471
"That helps us recover some of our losses because, as I mentioned before, we've already paid out both the buyer and the seller."
Unfortunately for paypal spokesperson Michael Oldenburg, this isn't in fact the truth.
Paypal excludes SNAD complaints from the seller protection policy, so it has by no means reimbursed "both the buyer and the seller". It has reimbursed the buyer by in effect buying the item from him/her. It then resells the item and profits from the sale. It's the original seller who is out both item and payment.
Given his seeming lack of knowledge about his company's protection policies, his comment about instructing Liquidity to destroy suspected counterfeits is open to question.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:08 PDT 88 of 471
turkey, others did not have to verify in order for paypal to direct the return to this TX clearinghouse facility.
In fact, purse, one poster, has her emails from paypal showing how they handled it, no verification was required before she was told to send it to the TX address. She posted that.
turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:10 PDT 89 of 471
Yes, I believe that was before the amended policy. I'm sure there are instances where it's obvious it's a fake. I'm not saying I trust PP in all of this, but so far, there's no actual evidence of wrongdoing, just accusations.
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:10 PDT 90 of 471
cheerleaders
God Bless America.
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:12 PDT 91 of 471
Not all SNAD's are counterfeit, I think Paypal need to and a third category just for "Counterfeit item received"
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justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:14 PDT 92 of 471
cheerleaders
Of course... if you don't think eBay/PayPal are Hitler reborn you are a "cheerleader" I suppose.
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:14 PDT 93 of 471
I think paypal should be sending anything suspected of being counterfeit to a destination other than the company it contracts with to resell unwanted merchandise.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:17 PDT 94 of 471
dimesy, it's not a very 'transparent' process at all.
And condisering we know that paypal has never refunded both parties of a SNAD claim, my guess is this asset reclaimation company peddles it off for a cut.
I trust paypal like I trust ebay.
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:18 PDT 95 of 471
This is one of those rumors thats so easy to prove that it can't be possible.
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yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:22 PDT 96 of 471
So they don't verify, who does Justin? Tell me that?
Paypal sends them along and who verifies they are fake? The buyer who said it was? Paypal? Liquidity?
Who?
Nobody,
PayPal informs this that the item is conterfeit and should be destroyed. The item is identified by the PP Dispute #, which is one reason such is requested to be on the package, from that it is identified as a conterfiet and is destroyed, not further verification is conducted, Liquidity simply follows the instructions from the client, in this case PayPal.
Again, if someone wants to hear it from the horses mouth, give them a call and inquire if they can provide such a service for you.
And to answer the question about the bidding, Companies bid on what they would charge to provide this service, they then select the bid they are most comfortable with, these companies are indeed monitored, most often such contracts are attained via the sealed bids process. Much like contractors whom placed sealed bids to city and state projects.
Some folks lack of general business knowledge, only goes to support how undereducated they actually are in such matters and must be embarrased with their foot-in-the-mouth statements being made here.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:25 PDT 97 of 471
"That helps us recover some of our losses because, as I mentioned before, we've already paid out both the buyer and the seller."
Unfortunately for paypal spokesperson Michael Oldenburg, this isn't in fact the truth.
Paypal excludes SNAD complaints from the seller protection policy, so it has by no means reimbursed "both the buyer and the seller". It has reimbursed the buyer by in effect buying the item from him/her. It then resells the item and profits from the sale. It's the original seller who is out both item and payment.
DIMESY,
You do realize, that statement was a statement made 5 years ago, right?
tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:28 PDT 98 of 471
Addresses match. Paypal gets a "suite" which you can guess is just a code word. There probably is no suite within that address any more than mailing storefront po boxes can be defined as suites.
not exactly. The suite number really does exist. BUT the tenant at that suite number is Liquidity Services
from
www.secinfo.com/d11MXs.v2hD3.6.htm
by and between FIRST INDUSTRIAL TEXAS LP, a Delaware limited partnership (hereinafter called “Landlord”), and Liquidity Services, Inc., a Delaware corporation (hereinafter called “Tenant”).
WHEREAS, by Lease Agreement, dated February 2, 2005, FIRST INDUSTRIAL TEXAS LP, a Delaware limited partnership as Landlord, leased to Tenant certain premises (the “Premises”) totaling 49,883 square feet situated at 12750 Perimeter Drive, Suite 154, Dallas, Texas, 75228.
scroll down to exhibit A to see layout of suites and suite #
You can also view the complex on google maps street view, but cant zoom in well enough to see the suite # nor the name above the door.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:28 PDT 99 of 471
christmascruise (521 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:05 PDT 83 of 97
yoursurplusstore, If you're trying to draw other compnies into this discussion, Could you please find for us, where on walmart.com, bestbuy.com or any other consumer outlet for goods, deal in COUNTERFEIT ITEMS?
Christmas, the discussion is concerning the mutiliation of non-consumer goods, that can not legally be sold to the consumer, this would included recalled items as well. So yes, those recalled items must go somewhere for disposal as well and I seriously doubt that the other consumer sites are going to provide you the information on how that process works, as that is not the consumers business and is not what the website is there for, it is there for consumer sales and purchases. Mutilation of goods has nothing to do with the purpose of the website.
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:28 PDT 100 of 471
yoursurplusstore,
Why do you think the statements are from 5 years ago?
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
birch-grove (1109 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:31 PDT 101 of 471
I was not required to authenticate, although PP sent me that letter saying that I had to initiate that process until I pointed out to them that the seller in her reply to the dispute said that she never claimed to be selling a Sharif when in fact her auction content did in fact say the brand was Sharif. The one thing we both agreed on finaslly was that the bag was certainly not a Sharif. At that point I was directed to send the offending bag to Dallas which I did for a refund.
tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:31 PDT 102 of 471
Could you please find for us, where on walmart.com, bestbuy.com or any other consumer outlet for goods, deal in COUNTERFEIT ITEMS?
walmart's gotten in trouble at least once for selling counterfeit goods. But I dont see the relevance to the discussion (maybe i missed something, though).
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:35 PDT 103 of 471
You do realize, that statement was a statement made 5 years ago, right?
He's been saying the same thing for five years? Geez, you'd think by now he'd know how the system works.
That's the same response he gave to auctionbytes yesterday.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:36 PDT 104 of 471
yoursurplusstore,
Why do you think the statements are from 5 years ago?
Maybe because at the top of the article it says June, 2003.
Liquidity Services, Inc., a Major Source for Bulk Surplus, to Sell Online
Market Wire, June, 2003
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:38 PDT 105 of 471
walmart's gotten in trouble at least once for selling counterfeit goods. But I dont see the relevance to the discussion (maybe i missed something, though).
Some are claiming that because they can't find how the company destroys items on their website that they do not destroy items.
His point is that almost no company is going to describe how they dispose of items if that process is not the key part of their business.
He is saying Wal-Mart, Best Buy and so on do dispose of mechandise. Just because you can't find how they do it on their websites is not proof that they do not do it.
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:39 PDT 106 of 471
In response to an inquiry about these claims, Liquidity Services spokesperson Julie Davis told AuctionBytes, "If we receive goods from PayPal that have evidence of or are suspected to be counterfeit, they are destroyed. Liquidation.com would not knowingly sell counterfeit goods in our marketplace."
Thats the end of the no story.
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tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:39 PDT 107 of 471
thanks for the clarification
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:39 PDT 108 of 471
Dimesy,
I think I may have two articles intertwined here, I was referring to another article pointed out at the beginning and thought this person was being quoted from that article. Sorry, my error.
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:40 PDT 109 of 471
Maybe because at the top of the article it says June, 2003.
Liquidity Services, Inc., a Major Source for Bulk Surplus, to Sell Online
Market Wire, June, 2003
Ah, I am looking at an article dated today with the same quote. That explains the confusion on my part.
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:41 PDT 110 of 471
Thats the end of the no story.
Pure speculation!
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:41 PDT 111 of 471
Not to sidetrack the thread, but the question of what happens to recalled merchandise is a good one.
I remember reading this article in the LA Times several months ago that asks the same question.
Back to topic, there is a long response on the auctionbytes blog from an intrepid poster who is on the hunt to track eBay counterfeit returns through the cycle. Interesting reading. (Of course now that the subject is coming to light, buyers can keep an eye on liquidation.com to see if their 'counterfeits' are put up for resale.)
christmascruise (521 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:41 PDT 112 of 471
tulsaguy5, that's exactly why I mentioned yoursurplusstore's post #80, which introduced those companies to the topic. Their post was an attempt to muddy the waters with irrelevance.
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:45 PDT 113 of 471
buyers can keep an eye on liquidation.com to see if their 'counterfeits' are put up for resale.)
Be carfull Ligudation.com is not who anyone is talking about.
Liquidity inc is not connected in any way to Ligudation.com
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yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:48 PDT 114 of 471
christmascruise (521 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:41 PDT 112 of 112
tulsaguy5, that's exactly why I mentioned yoursurplusstore's post #80, which introduced those companies to the topic. Their post was an attempt to muddy the waters with irrelevance.
no Christmascruise, if you actually followed the thread, nancy made the statement that they do not destroy items at that company. Why? Because they do not state so on their website. The relevance to my follow up with her, is that non-consumerable items from walmart must be destroyed, such as recalled items. So I asked her to provide us with the information from Walmart.com, explaining thier process for destroying items and we would be glad to wait on the information.... we are still awaiting that information back from her...might take awhile though
The point being, that while they do not have anything explained about this on their consumer sales/retail website, does not mean it does not occur. And as evident by the article, they verified to the effect that the items they are notified about from PayPal as being conterfeit are destroyed and not sold in the marketplace.
So as BM has said, thats the end of story, unless you have something more than slanderous remarks to back up what you are accusing the company of. I guess we will wait on that evidence to help persuade us of what we view as a perfectly legal business process.
But like with Nancy, we will be glad to wait for you to return with such evidence.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:51 PDT 115 of 471
Max,
Liquidation.com is a subsidary of Liquidity, Inc.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:53 PDT 116 of 471
as is govliquidation.com, GoWholesale.com and GovDeals.com.
itsajokeson (351 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:55 PDT 117 of 471
It would make sense that if/when Paypal and Liquidity Services took possession of fake designer goods, they would notify the TM owner and advise them what they proposed to do with the fakes. Perhaps even offer proof of destruction if that was the proper action.
As much flack as Ebay has taken over the fake designer goods issue, if Ebay/Paypal's corporate attorney's did not advise them that this was a prudent way to 'show an appropriate level of corporate concern and cooperation', someone has rocks for brains.
tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:56 PDT 118 of 471
also, their european branch is liquibiz.com
the_fancy_fox (838 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:59 PDT 119 of 471
I think paypal should be sending anything suspected of being counterfeit to a destination other than the company it contracts with to resell unwanted merchandise.
Absolutely 100% correct.
People on the purse board claim this company has obvious fakes for sale on its site, correct? Now this same company gets to decide if something is fake or not?
These items should be sent to a third party that does not have a vested interest in selling the items!
How obvious can it get?
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:59 PDT 120 of 471
Itsajokeson, one would think that would be the prudent thing to do, but apparently eBay and paypal don't communicate effectively amongst themselves.
If they did, I'm sure they wouldn't have instituted a policy whereby sellers are not allowed to reject echeck payments, yet are allowed to require instant payment on BIN sales.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:59 PDT 121 of 471
LSI enables buyers and sellers to transact in an efficient, automated online auction environment. The Company's marketplaces provide professional buyers access to a global, organized supply of wholesale, surplus and salvage assets presented with digital images and other relevant product information. Additionally, LSI enables its corporate and government sellers to enhance their financial return on excess assets by providing a liquid marketplace and value-added services that are integrated into a single offering. The Company organizes its products into categories across major industry verticals such as consumer electronics, general merchandise, apparel, scientific equipment, aerospace parts and equipment, technology hardware, and scrap metals. The Company's online auction marketplaces are www.liquidation.com, www.govliquidation.com, www.govdeals.com and www.liquibiz.com. LSI also operates a wholesale industry portal, www.goWholesale.com, that connects advertisers with buyers seeking products for resale and related business services.
turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:00 PDT 122 of 471
If you could match the PP #s on the manifest to PP SNAD claims for authenticity, you'd be on to something.
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:01 PDT 123 of 471
Hmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Why did only ONE of my KNOCK OFFS of the SAME PRODUCT get requested for a REVIEW and not the OTHER ONE when BOTH were reported?
Anyone?
IF a report is made to PayPal & eBay regarding COUNTERFEIT ITEM RECEIVED, why then would only SOME be requested to be returned for authentication/review as to authenticity?
LEGALLY, once a VENUE is notified of a KNOCK OFF, wouldn't they be REQUIRED to somehow GET THAT ITEM BACK to make a determination of authenticity OR to turn THE COUNTERFEIT ITEM PURCHASED over for destroying it so it could never venture into a SAFE MARKETPLACE again?
Sheesh..........now I have to go find the ACTUAL pictures I took of BOTH of these KNOCK OFFS, as I take pictures of ANYTHING I RETURN FOR MY RECORDS (I wonder if THEIR record keeping is THAT good?)
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:06 PDT 124 of 471
Hmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Why did only ONE of my KNOCK OFFS of the SAME PRODUCT get requested for a REVIEW and not the OTHER ONE when BOTH were reported?
Anyone?
IF a report is made to PayPal & eBay regarding COUNTERFEIT ITEM RECEIVED, why then would only SOME be requested to be returned for authentication/review as to authenticity?
Likely depends on who the dispute is started. There seems to be different courses of action depending on if it is started via PayPal's system or the credit card company itself.
Also, it seems to depend on the seller's response. It seems that if the selelr disputes the claim they are more likely to ask for the item.
LEGALLY, once a VENUE is notified of a KNOCK OFF, wouldn't they be REQUIRED to somehow GET THAT ITEM BACK to make a determination of authenticity OR to turn THE COUNTERFEIT ITEM PURCHASED over for destroying it so it could never venture into a SAFE MARKETPLACE again?
How could PayPal legally require you do send in the items? They can't just come to your home and seize the stuff.
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:08 PDT 125 of 471
I ***PERSONALLY*** FILED BOTH SNADS/RECEIVED COUNTERFEIT ITEM THROUGH PAYPAL, NOT MY CREDIT CARD COMPANY, BOTH WITHIN A 2 WEEK PERIOD OF TIME.
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:13 PDT 126 of 471
They can't just come to your home and seize the stuff.
Paypal has no confiscation rights, but the copyright owner could apply to a court for an ex parte seizure order to do just that.
Purse, your experience is an example of how paypal's policies are applied inconsistently. I don't know how long ago you sent the purses to Texas, but if it was fairly recently you might want to scout around on liquidation.com.
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:14 PDT 127 of 471
Do you know the seller responses?
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
blueflowertattoo (725 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:26 PDT 128 of 471
In response to an inquiry about these claims, Liquidity Services spokesperson Julie Davis told AuctionBytes, "If we receive goods from PayPal that have evidence of or are suspected to be counterfeit, they are destroyed. Liquidation.com would not knowingly sell counterfeit goods in our marketplace."
Thats the end of the no story.
I found at least 4 obvious fake LVs on their site...all recently closed auctions... Even I could tell they were fakes despite the small pics...took screen shots too.
the_fancy_fox (838 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:42 PDT 129 of 471
What else would you expect them to say?
"Oh yes, we resell the items and make money off counterfiet merchandise?"
LOL
Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
itsajokeson (351 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:42 PDT 130 of 471
I suspect that REAL *the end of the story* depends on what if anything the owners of the TMs decide to do about the possibility that something might be amiss. They have the means and the right. Ball in their court.
If as has been posters, there are knowledgeable posters who have screenshots or relevant documents, it would probably help for them to see then so that they can decide what course to take.
Certainly Ebay/Paypal would advise their users to assist the rightful TM owners if there is really an issue.
everybody_conga! (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:47 PDT 131 of 471
It might be interesting if a buyer could prove that what he/she sent to Texas as counterfeit was later sold by them. Maybe a Buyer's mark? lol
Never fight a woman who has her own chainsaw.
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alenalara (1156 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:58 PDT 132 of 471
If you could match the PP #s on the manifest to PP SNAD claims for authenticity, you'd be on to something
Somebody did that. There's a lot of pieces started to come together on this. I think people are reselling the fakes through liquidity and they are getting these fakes through paypals "return" policy for counterfeits. The question is, why does Paypal have you send the product in question to liquidity, shouldn't it be sent to ebay to provide evidence of fraud against the seller, or better yet, I'm sure the original companies would be interested in seeing these products destroyed, maybe even track down the maker? If frauds are being sold through liquidity to sellers, how can the re-seller be held responsible? If liquidity gets their products from "verified sellers" and sells said product "as is" how are they accountable?
--check out ripoffreport.com and search "liquidity services"-lots of interesting reading--
IMHO, Paypal has no business being involved in this, especially if they are somehow profiting from it. There should be a better way to handle counterfeit claims and a better way to protect buyers and sellers.
.
Here's the blog about it at auctionbytes:
blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2008/7/1214969880.html
mote1 (636 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 13:10 PDT 133 of 471
If Liquidity says they would never "knowingly" sell fake/counterfeits while at the same time saying they are not authenticators of goods that are sent to them to be destroyed..
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 13:20 PDT 134 of 471
OK, as far as the SELLERS involved in BOTH of my cases......I already posted these letters, but did not want to make you all LQQK for 'em!
Here's the FIRST letter I received where I did NOT have to return the knock off to PayPal in Texas. In fact, I did NOT have to return ANYTHING to the seller of that knock off, PayPal just REFUNDED me:
We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your
favor.
We were able to recover $XXX.XX USD and this amount has been credited to
you. Please allow five business days for this adjustment to be posted.
If you are due any additional funds, we will make our best effort to
recover the balance from the seller.
If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed
to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the
seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account
privileges.
NOW, here's the letter I received from PayPal once they had decided in my favor AFTER I HAD RETURNED THE SECOND KNOCK OFF TO "PAYPAL" IN TEXAS:
PayPal has received the item in dispute. A refund will be issued to your
PayPal account within 5 business days.
PayPal regrets any inconvenience you may have experienced.
This claim has been resolved amicably. Please consider this when leaving
feedback for this seller.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
Protection Services Department
Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you
will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account
and click the Help link located in the top right corner of any page. If
your inquiry is regarding a claim, log in to your PayPal account and go to
the Resolution Center.
Do you see what I see?
OF NOTE.....the ACTUAL TRANSACTIONS are only TWO days apart
thingyytoo (25 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 13:54 PDT 135 of 471
What a tangled web they weave....Naru'd sellers put them over the edge to be sure.
turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:02 PDT 136 of 471
Somebody did that. I don't see proof of matching #s, I see supposition.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:03 PDT 137 of 471
Ya, all those coincidences mean nothing
turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:04 PDT 138 of 471
:sigh:
RIF
theflyingpetticoat (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:05 PDT 139 of 471
This pisses me off. I sold a coat a while back and the buyer didn't like how it fit them. They emailed me while I was out of town and since I didn't email them back they filed a chargeback with their credit card company, prompting ebay to make my account in the negative and an open claim. When I got home I of course asked the lady to please send the coat back to me and she said that Paypal told her credit card company the coat needed to be sent to them!
Well, guess what, the lady got her money back AND Paypal got my coat. I sent several emails to them, plus called and was always told they were forwarding the message to the right department. PAYPAL NEVER SENT ME THE COAT BACK, and gave the customer their money back.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:07 PDT 140 of 471
If it walks like one and quacks like one, it is one.
RIF
theflyingpetticoat (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:07 PDT 141 of 471
We also had proof of delivery of the coat to Paypal. They are so d**n full of it.
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:07 PDT 142 of 471
If Liquidity says they would never "knowingly" sell fake/counterfeits while at the same time saying they are not authenticators of goods that are sent to them to be destroyed..
You got it wrong Paypal said they don't use Liquidity to authenticate goods, thats not saying no one does.
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nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:08 PDT 143 of 471
Max, who authenticates the goods? In the case of purse's return, who authenticated that?
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:12 PDT 144 of 471
Nancy,
You may know the answer to this.....
how far can a neck TURN TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY before it SNAPS?
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:14 PDT 145 of 471
This claim has been resolved amicably. Please consider this when leaving
feedback for this seller.
one more time..........
This claim has been resolved amicably. Please consider this when leaving
feedback for this seller.
Why did ONE e-mail have THAT in it and NOT the other?
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:15 PDT 146 of 471
Are we talkin' 'bout Linda Blair? Or are we talkin' 'bout ebay?
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:16 PDT 147 of 471
Purse, selective reading habits, that's the problem
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:17 PDT 148 of 471
LINDA BLAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my GOD!
OT, WAYYYYYYYYYYYY OT!
My best friend in college looked IDENTICAL to her. We couldn't go anywhere without people stopping us. NOBODY believed her when she said she wasn't her.
She finally gave up, just signed the requested autographs and posed for pics with 'em.
alenalara (1156 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:26 PDT 149 of 471
Somebody did that. I don't see proof of matching #s, I see supposition.
It's in the post on the auctionbytes blog, also has been reprinted here now, showing how the numbers show up the same. Rather than reprinting everything and explaining everything, I have provided the links so that you can read a little more about it and you will find some interesting coincidences which may lead to some disturbing practices.
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:28 PDT 150 of 471
If it has to do with paypal and ebay I beleive it....their going down.
God Bless America.
turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:35 PDT 151 of 471
It's in the post on the auctionbytes blog, also has been reprinted here now, showing how the numbers show up the same. I see the manifest which does appear to be using PP#s. I was talking about matching one of those numbers with a buyer/seller SNAD from eBay. I don't see that. Am I missing it? The initial two thread didn't, I don't think, include any actual numbers and the c&p of the email has the #s blanked out.
I'm not saying there isn't a great deal that's troubling about all of there. There is. And it's certainly worth digging into. I'm saying I don't see any concrete proof yet.
It's not a shock that a liquidator of any kind would have oodles of unhappy customers. Bargainland was a perfect example of that.
For those who like to read things into my posts, let me be super clear. I am not saying it's not possible that eBay and PP are acting in cahoots with LSI to resell counterfeit merchandise, I'm saying I don't see the smoking gun, just a lot of smoke.
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:48 PDT 152 of 471
::sigh::
God Bless America.
itsajokeson (351 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:53 PDT 153 of 471
I'm saying I don't see any concrete proof yet.
That is why God invented the subpoena duces tecum, interrogatories, and depositions.
Is there anything to all of this? I have no idea. Ought to be VERY interesting to watch what develops.
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:59 PDT 154 of 471
Max, who authenticates the goods? In the case of purse's return, who authenticated that?
I have no idea, they never said who did only who don't.
Many cases the buyer is required to show proof, has that not been posted here many times?
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tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 15:12 PDT 155 of 471
if theyre selling the fake goods, then that's of course a major issue.
if theyre selling only the non-fake ones that have been shipped in due to a SNAD claim, and the seller is getting the money taken out of their acct for the claim, then that's a huge issue as well.
either way, it looks very dirty (esp. with that one manifest that has paypal claim numbers).
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 15:25 PDT 156 of 471
Working backwards, a Coach Hamptons black tote sold in this lot, was later resold on eBay.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
One interesting thing is the manifest for that lot that shows what appears to be a PP return #.
There was no indication on either of the selling sites about any imperfections that would prompt a return, but it's possible it was originally returned to paypal for an entirely innocuous reason, if indeed that is a PP #.
One other interesting thing is that the tote doesn't seem to resemble anything else in this particular Coach collection, but I know very little about high-end purses - maybe it's a discontinued style.
Yet another interesting thing is that the eBay price was at least $300 below anything on the official Coach site. Such a deal!
alenalara (1156 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 15:43 PDT 157 of 471
dimesy1, good research.
I question why would anything be returned to Paypal?? They only handle the money. Shouldn't the seller get their product back if it was a return?
And yes, it is very interesting how cheap one can sell a Coach purse, there are people at the Purse Forum that can identify fakes, maybe send the question over that way?
bubbles*up*ones*whoopsie-daisy (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 15:55 PDT 158 of 471
There are a couple of items on that manifest with quotes around the designer name (copied and pasted below)
"Louis Vuitton" black wallet
New "Coach" 3572 gold mosiac purse
Does this mean they know they are fakes?
tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 16:21 PDT 159 of 471
^ i was wondering the same thing. That's what one of the big sellers of beads for crafters does when stones are fake, they put quotes around it (ie: "gaspeite").
Do not have any facts, but my observations are that the manifest linked to on their site is pretty d**ning evidence. Regardless of how they attained them, they took the seller money for thier return, if they are legit, then the seller should be recieving the proceeds of those items back.
I am not an attorney, but if I were one, within legal jurisdiction for such, this has all the makings to be a win win looking class action suit against anyone whom has fallen to such recovery of goods to this site to be resold.
Be nice to see someone latch onto this and print that evidence before it goes away for good. I would almost bet that those are indeed PP Case #'s
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 16:51 PDT 161 of 471
I do beleive this stuff happens. If you ever visit flea Markets you will find stuff that store have gotten rid of because of a problem and you will find vendors there selling it. Like the bad dog food as one example.
God Bless America.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 16:54 PDT 162 of 471
Stores liquidate returns every day, recapture cash, often though the manufacturer takes it back first, but what the manufacturer does with it once they get those returns is anyone's guess.
My guess? Send it to such companies to recapture assets like this one that paypal 'works' with.
Only paypal rarely (I'm saying this because I've never heard of it, ever) pays back the seller and the buyer.
I would love to hear one story where both parties were paid back and paypal then was clear to sell off and gain financially from SNAD claimed merchandise they had sent to this company.
rr212 (33 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 17:25 PDT 163 of 471
Plenty of designer bags & more here
www.liquidation.com/list/all/cta/1.html
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 17:42 PDT 164 of 471
Has anyone ever heard of Portero?
Very interesting site.
shabbychicandpink (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:01 PDT 165 of 471
Just because they sell designer bags on their website does not mean they are selling the ones that are sent to them to be destroyed.
Stop with all the speculation!
tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:04 PDT 166 of 471
Just because they sell designer bags on their website does not mean they are selling the ones that are sent to them to be destroyed.
True, it doesnt. But the fact that we've never heard about seller getting to keep the $ when paypal refunds a SNAD and paypal is then selling the items is a huge issue and such actions are the grounds for class action lawsuit and possibly criminal actions as well.
ruthl416 (130 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:09 PDT 167 of 471
Google Portero
See: Portero.com Mini Review: Mediorce Used Watch Retailer Disguised As...
This is a blog talking about Portero, the owner
Michael Shelton of Portero appears in the comments section and
explains who he is and what he does, He is a
former seller on eBay andtalks about why he created
the site.
(Take from what you will)
~~T&S KKC Member#51~~
the_fancy_fox (838 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:20 PDT 168 of 471
Stop with all the speculation!
That fakes have been found to have been sold on their site and that they receive all the PayPal SNAD complaint items enough to tell you there is a conflict of interest?
I am not saying that the PayPal sent SNAD items were sold by this company. I am saying that the appearance it gives is very bad.
Follow the money trail. Do you think PayPal pays these people to check the items? I would believe that its more probably they cut a deal.
What bothers me is that there is no doubt that legitimate items where returned to this company and the seller had the reversal against their account causing them the loss of item and money. If the item IS legitimate, the seller should receive that item back or be paid for it!
This is just so wrong on so many levels.
Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
shabbychicandpink (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:25 PDT 169 of 471
SO Purse Couture - did you get a refund or not? It looks like you did. It appears to have been the expected hassle, but you ended up with a refund?
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:34 PDT 170 of 471
Yes. 2 refunds.
One refund without returning the knock off I received to ANYONE, not even the seller (it's still here in my possession, WTF am I gonna do with a counterfeit bag?), and one refund for returning that one to PayPal for review for authenticity at the Texas address.
The refund without a return was IMMEDIATE, and believe it or not, more $$$$.
The refund with a return to that address in Texas was a chore. THAT refund gave me the "be nice to the seller when you leave feedback" note.
shabbychicandpink (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:40 PDT 171 of 471
Thanks, just wanted to be sure I read your previous post correctly.
RE: Speculation because no one has heard of anyone getting a refund
So that's proof of 2 refunds. People aren't likely to come to SC and post that they got a refund like Purse did. They are more likely to post a problem. Purse posted her experience because this thread was started and it was relevant.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:47 PDT 172 of 471
Refund to the BUYER only, the seller loses product and money.
Big difference.
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:47 PDT 173 of 471
Shabby, I was the BUYER on both.
The question is IF the sellers DID get refunds which I KNOW they did NOT.
spcmillerswife (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:49 PDT 174 of 471
They of course rely on this information for those items to be given to them and if this is not being done, then PayPal would be in error here, not liquidity services Inc.
But they're being sent bags which were returned for the mere fact that they were fakes, so they would have to know. And if it is generally illegal to sell these fakes, then Liquidity would be at fault. Their legal department would have a tough time saying "they didn't know." eBay sellers aren't allowed to say that, so a big company like Liquidity certainly wouldn't be able to say that.
spcmillerswife (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:51 PDT 175 of 471
What bothers me is that there is no doubt that legitimate items where returned to this company and the seller had the reversal against their account causing them the loss of item and money. If the item IS legitimate, the seller should receive that item back or be paid for it!
It bothers me too, but I think that is exactly what PP wants - REAL bags returned.
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 19:01 PDT 176 of 471
OK, so let's look at it this way:
Buyer sends the knock off widget to the "AHEM" PayPal address in Texas.
PayPal refunds buyer.
The money transaction is between the SELLER/BUYER then PAYPAL/BUYER.
Why would PayPal send something to a third party? So the third party can VERIFY it and subsequently DESTROY it?
Why wouldn't PayPal THEMSELVES get it and destroy it? Why the middleman?
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 19:07 PDT 177 of 471
Which brings me to the PayPal video on YOU TUBE of the guy that recorded the phone call......the amplifier guy.
I *think* his "already repainted expensive amplifier" was in the possession of yet ANOTHER third party (collections agency?) and THEY told him "you have X amount of days to come get your widget OR else"
Go to YOU TUBE and search this:
Paypal collection call follow-up to the truth about Paypal
spcmillerswife (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 19:12 PDT 178 of 471
In general - does Liquidity buy other "lots" outright, then sell them, or do they sell them and return the money to the original owner, taking a percentage for themselves?
Good way to somewhat launder money....
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 19:15 PDT 179 of 471
Now now.......could THIS be THEM...............
www.centredaily.com/business/technology/story/669298.html
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 20:14 PDT 180 of 471
you betcha.....I have inside info but not willing to share to protect the innocent
God Bless America.
shabbychicandpink (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 20:19 PDT 181 of 471
Oh, ok. I assumed from your ID that you were the seller.
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 20:25 PDT 182 of 471
no but I have a SIL(fbi agent) that worked with ebay with fake rolexes if you really need to know
God Bless America.
allaboutsewing (394 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 20:58 PDT 183 of 471
www.tdpri.com/forum/bad-dog-cafe/72074-paypal-steals-telecaster-guitar.html
Paypal Steals Telecaster Guitar
This is heads up warning for all whom sell guitars with non fender parts. I recently sold a partscaster guitar to a guy who used Paypal to pay for it. The guitar was previously listed on ebay but was not sold via ebay. The ebay add described the guitar as a 12 string conversion using Fender and non Fender parts. It clearly stated the neck was not a fender product in spite of the aftermarket decals on it. After receiving the guitar the buyer described it as a beautiful and very well done conversion but wanted to return it for a full refund because "it did not sing to him". I did not offer to accept returns in the ebay add so I declined his request. He filed a "significantly not as described" claim at Paypal stating it was not genuine Fender and won the claim for a full refund. Paypal had him ship the guitar to PAYPAL RETURNS, 12750 Perimeter Drive, Suite 154, Dallas, Texas 75228 for destruction. I have confirmation from the buyer that it was delivered to PAY PAL RETURNS by UPS on 26 March, 2007. I have since learned that PAYPAL RETURNS is a LIQUIDATOR and they are selling the so-called counterfeit guitar. Oh yes, they refunded the buyer from my paypal funds and kept the sellers fee they charged me as well. Paypal never allowed me to respond in any my property.
Read the article below, then take a look at this website, forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/paypal-wants-the-fake-chanel-309773.html.
Where Do eBay Fakes Go to Die?
www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y08/m07/i02/s01
Why does PayPal ask buyers to send counterfeit merchandise purchased on eBay to a warehouse in Texas belonging to a liquidator? That's the question some eBay members are asking, and some are questioning whether PayPal is directing the liquidator to resell counterfeit items rather than destroying them.
"The Purse Forum," an online discussion board calling itself a "community for handbag lovers and shoulder fashion fetishists," has an active discussion in which users speculate Liquidity Services is reselling counterfeits on their site on PayPal's behalf. The person who started the thread about PayPal's request for her to send a fake Chanel handbag (in its original condition) to Liquidity Service's address in Texas later wrote to say she had filed a complaint with the FBI over the matter.
One buyer who wrote to AuctionBytes had similar concerns. "I became suspicious as to why (PayPal) would want the bags in original condition. Why wouldn't they want me to cut the handles in half or put a big black X on the outside with permanent marker?" she asked.
In response to an inquiry about these claims, Liquidity Services spokesperson Julie Davis told AuctionBytes, "If we receive goods from PayPal that have evidence of or are suspected to be counterfeit, they are destroyed. Liquidation.com would not knowingly sell counterfeit goods in our marketplace."
PayPal explained why it was working with Liquidity Services and how the "Significantly Not as Described" (SNAD) claims process works. Spokesperson Michael Oldenburg said PayPal works with the liquidation firm in a very limited number of cases in Buyer Protection claims where the buyer has filed a Significantly Not as Described claim, and the buyer and seller cannot work it out. "We usually encourage the buyer to return the merchandise to the seller," Oldenburg said.
In cases where they buyer doesn't want to return the merchandise to the seller, or the seller doesn't want the merchandise back, PayPal compensates both parties, he said. In those cases, PayPal asks the buyer to send the merchandise to Liquidity Services.
Liquidity Services does not act as an authenticator, Oldenburg said, and what happens to the item in Texas then depends on the type of SNAD claim. If there is an accusation that the item was counterfeit, PayPal says it directs Liquidity Services to destroy the item. Otherwise, Liquidity Services liquidates the item on its own marketplace. "That helps us recover some of our losses because, as I mentioned before, we've already paid out both the buyer and the seller."
However, claims are handled differently if the buyer initiates a chargeback with their credit card company.
"PayPal agents work with sellers, and we advocate on their behalf," Oldenburg said. If the seller can prove the item is authentic, they can give that proof to PayPal who will give it to the credit card company. But if the credit card company sides with the buyer, PayPal complies and withdraws the money from the seller's account.
However, Oldenburg said, sellers in that case can request that PayPal return the item to them if the buyer sends the item to Liquidity Services. "If the situation is a credit card chargeback, the credit card company works with the buyer to have him or her return the merchandise either directly to the seller or to PayPal via Liquidity Services. The buyer is usually required by his or her credit card company to provide proof that the item has been returned." The exception is if the claim is for a counterfeit item, he said.
"We always encourage people to use the online dispute resolution center," Oldenburg said, adding that PayPal tries to facilitate a dialog between the buyer and the seller so they can come to a mutual resolution.
Previous 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 ... 12 Next See last post
471 replies Date posted Reply #
tehart (185 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 01:36 PDT 1 of 471
Okay, a few things struck me as odd.
In cases where they buyer doesn't want to return the merchandise to the seller, or the seller doesn't want the merchandise back, PayPal compensates both parties, he said. In those cases, PayPal asks the buyer to send the merchandise to Liquidity Services.
When did this start? I have never, in all my time being associated with eBay/PayPal, heard that the seller can recoup the money PayPal takes from him/her by simply requesting
AMAZING! This could very well be why eBay refuses to pro-actively eliminate the selling of counterfit items on its site.
Read the article below, then take a look at this website, forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/paypal-wants-the-fake-chanel-309773.html.
Where Do eBay Fakes Go to Die?
www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y08/m07/i02/s01
Why does PayPal ask buyers to send counterfeit merchandise purchased on eBay to a warehouse in Texas belonging to a liquidator? That's the question some eBay members are asking, and some are questioning whether PayPal is directing the liquidator to resell counterfeit items rather than destroying them.
"The Purse Forum," an online discussion board calling itself a "community for handbag lovers and shoulder fashion fetishists," has an active discussion in which users speculate Liquidity Services is reselling counterfeits on their site on PayPal's behalf. The person who started the thread about PayPal's request for her to send a fake Chanel handbag (in its original condition) to Liquidity Service's address in Texas later wrote to say she had filed a complaint with the FBI over the matter.
One buyer who wrote to AuctionBytes had similar concerns. "I became suspicious as to why (PayPal) would want the bags in original condition. Why wouldn't they want me to cut the handles in half or put a big black X on the outside with permanent marker?" she asked.
In response to an inquiry about these claims, Liquidity Services spokesperson Julie Davis told AuctionBytes, "If we receive goods from PayPal that have evidence of or are suspected to be counterfeit, they are destroyed. Liquidation.com would not knowingly sell counterfeit goods in our marketplace."
PayPal explained why it was working with Liquidity Services and how the "Significantly Not as Described" (SNAD) claims process works. Spokesperson Michael Oldenburg said PayPal works with the liquidation firm in a very limited number of cases in Buyer Protection claims where the buyer has filed a Significantly Not as Described claim, and the buyer and seller cannot work it out. "We usually encourage the buyer to return the merchandise to the seller," Oldenburg said.
In cases where they buyer doesn't want to return the merchandise to the seller, or the seller doesn't want the merchandise back, PayPal compensates both parties, he said. In those cases, PayPal asks the buyer to send the merchandise to Liquidity Services.
Liquidity Services does not act as an authenticator, Oldenburg said, and what happens to the item in Texas then depends on the type of SNAD claim. If there is an accusation that the item was counterfeit, PayPal says it directs Liquidity Services to destroy the item. Otherwise, Liquidity Services liquidates the item on its own marketplace. "That helps us recover some of our losses because, as I mentioned before, we've already paid out both the buyer and the seller."
However, claims are handled differently if the buyer initiates a chargeback with their credit card company.
"PayPal agents work with sellers, and we advocate on their behalf," Oldenburg said. If the seller can prove the item is authentic, they can give that proof to PayPal who will give it to the credit card company. But if the credit card company sides with the buyer, PayPal complies and withdraws the money from the seller's account.
However, Oldenburg said, sellers in that case can request that PayPal return the item to them if the buyer sends the item to Liquidity Services. "If the situation is a credit card chargeback, the credit card company works with the buyer to have him or her return the merchandise either directly to the seller or to PayPal via Liquidity Services. The buyer is usually required by his or her credit card company to provide proof that the item has been returned." The exception is if the claim is for a counterfeit item, he said.
"We always encourage people to use the online dispute resolution center," Oldenburg said, adding that PayPal tries to facilitate a dialog between the buyer and the seller so they can come to a mutual resolution.
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471 replies Date posted Reply #
tehart (185 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 01:36 PDT 1 of 471
Okay, a few things struck me as odd.
In cases where they buyer doesn't want to return the merchandise to the seller, or the seller doesn't want the merchandise back, PayPal compensates both parties, he said. In those cases, PayPal asks the buyer to send the merchandise to Liquidity Services.
When did this start? I have never, in all my time being associated with eBay/PayPal, heard that the seller can recoup the money PayPal takes from him/her by simply requesting
Nancy..
Can you back that up? I can't. The website for the company doesn't show they do any verification process nor do they mention any destruction of counterfeits or any such process.
Could you please find for us, where on walmart.com, bestbuy.com or any other consumer outlet for goods, where it states that they destroy recalled goods, or how they go about doing so. Or how they handled returned, defective goods?
We'll wait for you to provide this information for us. Hurry back now.
*shakes head at such unknowledgeable participants to these boards, simply spreading incorrect information on a daily basis*
christmascruise (521 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:03 PDT 81 of 471
If you feel you've been victimized in a fraud scheme that involves the U.S. Mail, submit a Mail Fraud Complaint Form to the U.S. Postal Inspection Service
postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MailFraudComplaint.aspx
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:04 PDT 82 of 471
Let me repost this for those who missed it and tell me, who is doing the verification of it being a knock off?
Liquidity Services does not act as an authenticator, Oldenburg said, and what happens to the item in Texas then depends on the type of SNAD claim. If there is an accusation that the item was counterfeit, PayPal says it directs Liquidity Services to destroy the item. Otherwise, Liquidity Services liquidates the item on its own marketplace. "That helps us recover some of our losses because, as I mentioned before, we've already paid out both the buyer and the seller."
christmascruise (521 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:05 PDT 83 of 471
yoursurplusstore, If you're trying to draw other compnies into this discussion, Could you please find for us, where on walmart.com, bestbuy.com or any other consumer outlet for goods, deal in COUNTERFEIT ITEMS?
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:05 PDT 84 of 471
And they do resell some of it, so obviously not all are fakes or they were not being honest that they destroy what paypal sends them.
How do you conclude that mess from:
"If we receive goods from PayPal that have evidence of or are suspected to be counterfeit, they are destroyed."
Where is it stated they destroy everything sent to them?
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:05 PDT 85 of 471
As a matter of fact in cases where the buyer can supply documentation proving the item was fake, buyers are given the choice to send the item to Paypal or Send the item to the Police or Prosecutor.
Some companies will seize the item, there has been several post where a buyer took a purse in to be authenticated and the store refused to return it.
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turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:06 PDT 86 of 471
Nancy, you seem to be missing my posts.
My experience was that a 3rd party had to submit a letter to PP backing up my claim. My say-so wasn't enough. This was a fairly recent transaction (last 6 months). I believe the SNAD policy for counterfeits changed fairly recently to include the "may request 3rd party...". For me, they sure did.
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:08 PDT 87 of 471
"That helps us recover some of our losses because, as I mentioned before, we've already paid out both the buyer and the seller."
Unfortunately for paypal spokesperson Michael Oldenburg, this isn't in fact the truth.
Paypal excludes SNAD complaints from the seller protection policy, so it has by no means reimbursed "both the buyer and the seller". It has reimbursed the buyer by in effect buying the item from him/her. It then resells the item and profits from the sale. It's the original seller who is out both item and payment.
Given his seeming lack of knowledge about his company's protection policies, his comment about instructing Liquidity to destroy suspected counterfeits is open to question.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:08 PDT 88 of 471
turkey, others did not have to verify in order for paypal to direct the return to this TX clearinghouse facility.
In fact, purse, one poster, has her emails from paypal showing how they handled it, no verification was required before she was told to send it to the TX address. She posted that.
turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:10 PDT 89 of 471
Yes, I believe that was before the amended policy. I'm sure there are instances where it's obvious it's a fake. I'm not saying I trust PP in all of this, but so far, there's no actual evidence of wrongdoing, just accusations.
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:10 PDT 90 of 471
cheerleaders
God Bless America.
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:12 PDT 91 of 471
Not all SNAD's are counterfeit, I think Paypal need to and a third category just for "Counterfeit item received"
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justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:14 PDT 92 of 471
cheerleaders
Of course... if you don't think eBay/PayPal are Hitler reborn you are a "cheerleader" I suppose.
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:14 PDT 93 of 471
I think paypal should be sending anything suspected of being counterfeit to a destination other than the company it contracts with to resell unwanted merchandise.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:17 PDT 94 of 471
dimesy, it's not a very 'transparent' process at all.
And condisering we know that paypal has never refunded both parties of a SNAD claim, my guess is this asset reclaimation company peddles it off for a cut.
I trust paypal like I trust ebay.
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:18 PDT 95 of 471
This is one of those rumors thats so easy to prove that it can't be possible.
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yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:22 PDT 96 of 471
So they don't verify, who does Justin? Tell me that?
Paypal sends them along and who verifies they are fake? The buyer who said it was? Paypal? Liquidity?
Who?
Nobody,
PayPal informs this that the item is conterfeit and should be destroyed. The item is identified by the PP Dispute #, which is one reason such is requested to be on the package, from that it is identified as a conterfiet and is destroyed, not further verification is conducted, Liquidity simply follows the instructions from the client, in this case PayPal.
Again, if someone wants to hear it from the horses mouth, give them a call and inquire if they can provide such a service for you.
And to answer the question about the bidding, Companies bid on what they would charge to provide this service, they then select the bid they are most comfortable with, these companies are indeed monitored, most often such contracts are attained via the sealed bids process. Much like contractors whom placed sealed bids to city and state projects.
Some folks lack of general business knowledge, only goes to support how undereducated they actually are in such matters and must be embarrased with their foot-in-the-mouth statements being made here.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:25 PDT 97 of 471
"That helps us recover some of our losses because, as I mentioned before, we've already paid out both the buyer and the seller."
Unfortunately for paypal spokesperson Michael Oldenburg, this isn't in fact the truth.
Paypal excludes SNAD complaints from the seller protection policy, so it has by no means reimbursed "both the buyer and the seller". It has reimbursed the buyer by in effect buying the item from him/her. It then resells the item and profits from the sale. It's the original seller who is out both item and payment.
DIMESY,
You do realize, that statement was a statement made 5 years ago, right?
tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:28 PDT 98 of 471
Addresses match. Paypal gets a "suite" which you can guess is just a code word. There probably is no suite within that address any more than mailing storefront po boxes can be defined as suites.
not exactly. The suite number really does exist. BUT the tenant at that suite number is Liquidity Services
from
www.secinfo.com/d11MXs.v2hD3.6.htm
by and between FIRST INDUSTRIAL TEXAS LP, a Delaware limited partnership (hereinafter called “Landlord”), and Liquidity Services, Inc., a Delaware corporation (hereinafter called “Tenant”).
WHEREAS, by Lease Agreement, dated February 2, 2005, FIRST INDUSTRIAL TEXAS LP, a Delaware limited partnership as Landlord, leased to Tenant certain premises (the “Premises”) totaling 49,883 square feet situated at 12750 Perimeter Drive, Suite 154, Dallas, Texas, 75228.
scroll down to exhibit A to see layout of suites and suite #
You can also view the complex on google maps street view, but cant zoom in well enough to see the suite # nor the name above the door.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:28 PDT 99 of 471
christmascruise (521 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:05 PDT 83 of 97
yoursurplusstore, If you're trying to draw other compnies into this discussion, Could you please find for us, where on walmart.com, bestbuy.com or any other consumer outlet for goods, deal in COUNTERFEIT ITEMS?
Christmas, the discussion is concerning the mutiliation of non-consumer goods, that can not legally be sold to the consumer, this would included recalled items as well. So yes, those recalled items must go somewhere for disposal as well and I seriously doubt that the other consumer sites are going to provide you the information on how that process works, as that is not the consumers business and is not what the website is there for, it is there for consumer sales and purchases. Mutilation of goods has nothing to do with the purpose of the website.
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:28 PDT 100 of 471
yoursurplusstore,
Why do you think the statements are from 5 years ago?
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
birch-grove (1109 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:31 PDT 101 of 471
I was not required to authenticate, although PP sent me that letter saying that I had to initiate that process until I pointed out to them that the seller in her reply to the dispute said that she never claimed to be selling a Sharif when in fact her auction content did in fact say the brand was Sharif. The one thing we both agreed on finaslly was that the bag was certainly not a Sharif. At that point I was directed to send the offending bag to Dallas which I did for a refund.
tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:31 PDT 102 of 471
Could you please find for us, where on walmart.com, bestbuy.com or any other consumer outlet for goods, deal in COUNTERFEIT ITEMS?
walmart's gotten in trouble at least once for selling counterfeit goods. But I dont see the relevance to the discussion (maybe i missed something, though).
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:35 PDT 103 of 471
You do realize, that statement was a statement made 5 years ago, right?
He's been saying the same thing for five years? Geez, you'd think by now he'd know how the system works.
That's the same response he gave to auctionbytes yesterday.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:36 PDT 104 of 471
yoursurplusstore,
Why do you think the statements are from 5 years ago?
Maybe because at the top of the article it says June, 2003.
Liquidity Services, Inc., a Major Source for Bulk Surplus, to Sell Online
Market Wire, June, 2003
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:38 PDT 105 of 471
walmart's gotten in trouble at least once for selling counterfeit goods. But I dont see the relevance to the discussion (maybe i missed something, though).
Some are claiming that because they can't find how the company destroys items on their website that they do not destroy items.
His point is that almost no company is going to describe how they dispose of items if that process is not the key part of their business.
He is saying Wal-Mart, Best Buy and so on do dispose of mechandise. Just because you can't find how they do it on their websites is not proof that they do not do it.
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:39 PDT 106 of 471
In response to an inquiry about these claims, Liquidity Services spokesperson Julie Davis told AuctionBytes, "If we receive goods from PayPal that have evidence of or are suspected to be counterfeit, they are destroyed. Liquidation.com would not knowingly sell counterfeit goods in our marketplace."
Thats the end of the no story.
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tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:39 PDT 107 of 471
thanks for the clarification
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:39 PDT 108 of 471
Dimesy,
I think I may have two articles intertwined here, I was referring to another article pointed out at the beginning and thought this person was being quoted from that article. Sorry, my error.
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:40 PDT 109 of 471
Maybe because at the top of the article it says June, 2003.
Liquidity Services, Inc., a Major Source for Bulk Surplus, to Sell Online
Market Wire, June, 2003
Ah, I am looking at an article dated today with the same quote. That explains the confusion on my part.
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:41 PDT 110 of 471
Thats the end of the no story.
Pure speculation!
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:41 PDT 111 of 471
Not to sidetrack the thread, but the question of what happens to recalled merchandise is a good one.
I remember reading this article in the LA Times several months ago that asks the same question.
Back to topic, there is a long response on the auctionbytes blog from an intrepid poster who is on the hunt to track eBay counterfeit returns through the cycle. Interesting reading. (Of course now that the subject is coming to light, buyers can keep an eye on liquidation.com to see if their 'counterfeits' are put up for resale.)
christmascruise (521 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:41 PDT 112 of 471
tulsaguy5, that's exactly why I mentioned yoursurplusstore's post #80, which introduced those companies to the topic. Their post was an attempt to muddy the waters with irrelevance.
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:45 PDT 113 of 471
buyers can keep an eye on liquidation.com to see if their 'counterfeits' are put up for resale.)
Be carfull Ligudation.com is not who anyone is talking about.
Liquidity inc is not connected in any way to Ligudation.com
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yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:48 PDT 114 of 471
christmascruise (521 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:41 PDT 112 of 112
tulsaguy5, that's exactly why I mentioned yoursurplusstore's post #80, which introduced those companies to the topic. Their post was an attempt to muddy the waters with irrelevance.
no Christmascruise, if you actually followed the thread, nancy made the statement that they do not destroy items at that company. Why? Because they do not state so on their website. The relevance to my follow up with her, is that non-consumerable items from walmart must be destroyed, such as recalled items. So I asked her to provide us with the information from Walmart.com, explaining thier process for destroying items and we would be glad to wait on the information.... we are still awaiting that information back from her...might take awhile though
The point being, that while they do not have anything explained about this on their consumer sales/retail website, does not mean it does not occur. And as evident by the article, they verified to the effect that the items they are notified about from PayPal as being conterfeit are destroyed and not sold in the marketplace.
So as BM has said, thats the end of story, unless you have something more than slanderous remarks to back up what you are accusing the company of. I guess we will wait on that evidence to help persuade us of what we view as a perfectly legal business process.
But like with Nancy, we will be glad to wait for you to return with such evidence.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:51 PDT 115 of 471
Max,
Liquidation.com is a subsidary of Liquidity, Inc.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:53 PDT 116 of 471
as is govliquidation.com, GoWholesale.com and GovDeals.com.
itsajokeson (351 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:55 PDT 117 of 471
It would make sense that if/when Paypal and Liquidity Services took possession of fake designer goods, they would notify the TM owner and advise them what they proposed to do with the fakes. Perhaps even offer proof of destruction if that was the proper action.
As much flack as Ebay has taken over the fake designer goods issue, if Ebay/Paypal's corporate attorney's did not advise them that this was a prudent way to 'show an appropriate level of corporate concern and cooperation', someone has rocks for brains.
tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:56 PDT 118 of 471
also, their european branch is liquibiz.com
the_fancy_fox (838 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:59 PDT 119 of 471
I think paypal should be sending anything suspected of being counterfeit to a destination other than the company it contracts with to resell unwanted merchandise.
Absolutely 100% correct.
People on the purse board claim this company has obvious fakes for sale on its site, correct? Now this same company gets to decide if something is fake or not?
These items should be sent to a third party that does not have a vested interest in selling the items!
How obvious can it get?
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:59 PDT 120 of 471
Itsajokeson, one would think that would be the prudent thing to do, but apparently eBay and paypal don't communicate effectively amongst themselves.
If they did, I'm sure they wouldn't have instituted a policy whereby sellers are not allowed to reject echeck payments, yet are allowed to require instant payment on BIN sales.
yoursurplusstore (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 11:59 PDT 121 of 471
LSI enables buyers and sellers to transact in an efficient, automated online auction environment. The Company's marketplaces provide professional buyers access to a global, organized supply of wholesale, surplus and salvage assets presented with digital images and other relevant product information. Additionally, LSI enables its corporate and government sellers to enhance their financial return on excess assets by providing a liquid marketplace and value-added services that are integrated into a single offering. The Company organizes its products into categories across major industry verticals such as consumer electronics, general merchandise, apparel, scientific equipment, aerospace parts and equipment, technology hardware, and scrap metals. The Company's online auction marketplaces are www.liquidation.com, www.govliquidation.com, www.govdeals.com and www.liquibiz.com. LSI also operates a wholesale industry portal, www.goWholesale.com, that connects advertisers with buyers seeking products for resale and related business services.
turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:00 PDT 122 of 471
If you could match the PP #s on the manifest to PP SNAD claims for authenticity, you'd be on to something.
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:01 PDT 123 of 471
Hmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Why did only ONE of my KNOCK OFFS of the SAME PRODUCT get requested for a REVIEW and not the OTHER ONE when BOTH were reported?
Anyone?
IF a report is made to PayPal & eBay regarding COUNTERFEIT ITEM RECEIVED, why then would only SOME be requested to be returned for authentication/review as to authenticity?
LEGALLY, once a VENUE is notified of a KNOCK OFF, wouldn't they be REQUIRED to somehow GET THAT ITEM BACK to make a determination of authenticity OR to turn THE COUNTERFEIT ITEM PURCHASED over for destroying it so it could never venture into a SAFE MARKETPLACE again?
Sheesh..........now I have to go find the ACTUAL pictures I took of BOTH of these KNOCK OFFS, as I take pictures of ANYTHING I RETURN FOR MY RECORDS (I wonder if THEIR record keeping is THAT good?)
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:06 PDT 124 of 471
Hmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Why did only ONE of my KNOCK OFFS of the SAME PRODUCT get requested for a REVIEW and not the OTHER ONE when BOTH were reported?
Anyone?
IF a report is made to PayPal & eBay regarding COUNTERFEIT ITEM RECEIVED, why then would only SOME be requested to be returned for authentication/review as to authenticity?
Likely depends on who the dispute is started. There seems to be different courses of action depending on if it is started via PayPal's system or the credit card company itself.
Also, it seems to depend on the seller's response. It seems that if the selelr disputes the claim they are more likely to ask for the item.
LEGALLY, once a VENUE is notified of a KNOCK OFF, wouldn't they be REQUIRED to somehow GET THAT ITEM BACK to make a determination of authenticity OR to turn THE COUNTERFEIT ITEM PURCHASED over for destroying it so it could never venture into a SAFE MARKETPLACE again?
How could PayPal legally require you do send in the items? They can't just come to your home and seize the stuff.
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:08 PDT 125 of 471
I ***PERSONALLY*** FILED BOTH SNADS/RECEIVED COUNTERFEIT ITEM THROUGH PAYPAL, NOT MY CREDIT CARD COMPANY, BOTH WITHIN A 2 WEEK PERIOD OF TIME.
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:13 PDT 126 of 471
They can't just come to your home and seize the stuff.
Paypal has no confiscation rights, but the copyright owner could apply to a court for an ex parte seizure order to do just that.
Purse, your experience is an example of how paypal's policies are applied inconsistently. I don't know how long ago you sent the purses to Texas, but if it was fairly recently you might want to scout around on liquidation.com.
justinal (471 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:14 PDT 127 of 471
Do you know the seller responses?
_____________
-Justin
"Those who complain about the way the ball bounces are often the ones who dropped it."-Mark Twain
"I will not be as those who spend the day in complaining of headache, and the night in drinking the wine that gives it."-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
blueflowertattoo (725 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:26 PDT 128 of 471
In response to an inquiry about these claims, Liquidity Services spokesperson Julie Davis told AuctionBytes, "If we receive goods from PayPal that have evidence of or are suspected to be counterfeit, they are destroyed. Liquidation.com would not knowingly sell counterfeit goods in our marketplace."
Thats the end of the no story.
I found at least 4 obvious fake LVs on their site...all recently closed auctions... Even I could tell they were fakes despite the small pics...took screen shots too.
the_fancy_fox (838 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:42 PDT 129 of 471
What else would you expect them to say?
"Oh yes, we resell the items and make money off counterfiet merchandise?"
LOL
Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
itsajokeson (351 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:42 PDT 130 of 471
I suspect that REAL *the end of the story* depends on what if anything the owners of the TMs decide to do about the possibility that something might be amiss. They have the means and the right. Ball in their court.
If as has been posters, there are knowledgeable posters who have screenshots or relevant documents, it would probably help for them to see then so that they can decide what course to take.
Certainly Ebay/Paypal would advise their users to assist the rightful TM owners if there is really an issue.
everybody_conga! (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:47 PDT 131 of 471
It might be interesting if a buyer could prove that what he/she sent to Texas as counterfeit was later sold by them. Maybe a Buyer's mark? lol
Never fight a woman who has her own chainsaw.
i187.photobucket.com/albums/x257/tootiemichele/Moms/morningblob.gif
"I just wish you all would leave me alone. Why don't you just go back to the bidding board and let ME have some friends? I have done NOTHING to you- I don't even remember your id from the bidding board. JUST LEAVE ME ALONE- PLEASE !" -
alenalara (1156 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 12:58 PDT 132 of 471
If you could match the PP #s on the manifest to PP SNAD claims for authenticity, you'd be on to something
Somebody did that. There's a lot of pieces started to come together on this. I think people are reselling the fakes through liquidity and they are getting these fakes through paypals "return" policy for counterfeits. The question is, why does Paypal have you send the product in question to liquidity, shouldn't it be sent to ebay to provide evidence of fraud against the seller, or better yet, I'm sure the original companies would be interested in seeing these products destroyed, maybe even track down the maker? If frauds are being sold through liquidity to sellers, how can the re-seller be held responsible? If liquidity gets their products from "verified sellers" and sells said product "as is" how are they accountable?
--check out ripoffreport.com and search "liquidity services"-lots of interesting reading--
IMHO, Paypal has no business being involved in this, especially if they are somehow profiting from it. There should be a better way to handle counterfeit claims and a better way to protect buyers and sellers.
.
Here's the blog about it at auctionbytes:
blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2008/7/1214969880.html
mote1 (636 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 13:10 PDT 133 of 471
If Liquidity says they would never "knowingly" sell fake/counterfeits while at the same time saying they are not authenticators of goods that are sent to them to be destroyed..
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 13:20 PDT 134 of 471
OK, as far as the SELLERS involved in BOTH of my cases......I already posted these letters, but did not want to make you all LQQK for 'em!
Here's the FIRST letter I received where I did NOT have to return the knock off to PayPal in Texas. In fact, I did NOT have to return ANYTHING to the seller of that knock off, PayPal just REFUNDED me:
We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your
favor.
We were able to recover $XXX.XX USD and this amount has been credited to
you. Please allow five business days for this adjustment to be posted.
If you are due any additional funds, we will make our best effort to
recover the balance from the seller.
If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed
to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the
seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account
privileges.
NOW, here's the letter I received from PayPal once they had decided in my favor AFTER I HAD RETURNED THE SECOND KNOCK OFF TO "PAYPAL" IN TEXAS:
PayPal has received the item in dispute. A refund will be issued to your
PayPal account within 5 business days.
PayPal regrets any inconvenience you may have experienced.
This claim has been resolved amicably. Please consider this when leaving
feedback for this seller.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
Protection Services Department
Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you
will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account
and click the Help link located in the top right corner of any page. If
your inquiry is regarding a claim, log in to your PayPal account and go to
the Resolution Center.
Do you see what I see?
OF NOTE.....the ACTUAL TRANSACTIONS are only TWO days apart
thingyytoo (25 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 13:54 PDT 135 of 471
What a tangled web they weave....Naru'd sellers put them over the edge to be sure.
turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:02 PDT 136 of 471
Somebody did that. I don't see proof of matching #s, I see supposition.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:03 PDT 137 of 471
Ya, all those coincidences mean nothing
turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:04 PDT 138 of 471
:sigh:
RIF
theflyingpetticoat (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:05 PDT 139 of 471
This pisses me off. I sold a coat a while back and the buyer didn't like how it fit them. They emailed me while I was out of town and since I didn't email them back they filed a chargeback with their credit card company, prompting ebay to make my account in the negative and an open claim. When I got home I of course asked the lady to please send the coat back to me and she said that Paypal told her credit card company the coat needed to be sent to them!
Well, guess what, the lady got her money back AND Paypal got my coat. I sent several emails to them, plus called and was always told they were forwarding the message to the right department. PAYPAL NEVER SENT ME THE COAT BACK, and gave the customer their money back.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:07 PDT 140 of 471
If it walks like one and quacks like one, it is one.
RIF
theflyingpetticoat (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:07 PDT 141 of 471
We also had proof of delivery of the coat to Paypal. They are so d**n full of it.
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:07 PDT 142 of 471
If Liquidity says they would never "knowingly" sell fake/counterfeits while at the same time saying they are not authenticators of goods that are sent to them to be destroyed..
You got it wrong Paypal said they don't use Liquidity to authenticate goods, thats not saying no one does.
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nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:08 PDT 143 of 471
Max, who authenticates the goods? In the case of purse's return, who authenticated that?
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:12 PDT 144 of 471
Nancy,
You may know the answer to this.....
how far can a neck TURN TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY before it SNAPS?
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:14 PDT 145 of 471
This claim has been resolved amicably. Please consider this when leaving
feedback for this seller.
one more time..........
This claim has been resolved amicably. Please consider this when leaving
feedback for this seller.
Why did ONE e-mail have THAT in it and NOT the other?
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:15 PDT 146 of 471
Are we talkin' 'bout Linda Blair? Or are we talkin' 'bout ebay?
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:16 PDT 147 of 471
Purse, selective reading habits, that's the problem
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:17 PDT 148 of 471
LINDA BLAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my GOD!
OT, WAYYYYYYYYYYYY OT!
My best friend in college looked IDENTICAL to her. We couldn't go anywhere without people stopping us. NOBODY believed her when she said she wasn't her.
She finally gave up, just signed the requested autographs and posed for pics with 'em.
alenalara (1156 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:26 PDT 149 of 471
Somebody did that. I don't see proof of matching #s, I see supposition.
It's in the post on the auctionbytes blog, also has been reprinted here now, showing how the numbers show up the same. Rather than reprinting everything and explaining everything, I have provided the links so that you can read a little more about it and you will find some interesting coincidences which may lead to some disturbing practices.
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:28 PDT 150 of 471
If it has to do with paypal and ebay I beleive it....their going down.
God Bless America.
turkeyjackson (332 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:35 PDT 151 of 471
It's in the post on the auctionbytes blog, also has been reprinted here now, showing how the numbers show up the same. I see the manifest which does appear to be using PP#s. I was talking about matching one of those numbers with a buyer/seller SNAD from eBay. I don't see that. Am I missing it? The initial two thread didn't, I don't think, include any actual numbers and the c&p of the email has the #s blanked out.
I'm not saying there isn't a great deal that's troubling about all of there. There is. And it's certainly worth digging into. I'm saying I don't see any concrete proof yet.
It's not a shock that a liquidator of any kind would have oodles of unhappy customers. Bargainland was a perfect example of that.
For those who like to read things into my posts, let me be super clear. I am not saying it's not possible that eBay and PP are acting in cahoots with LSI to resell counterfeit merchandise, I'm saying I don't see the smoking gun, just a lot of smoke.
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:48 PDT 152 of 471
::sigh::
God Bless America.
itsajokeson (351 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:53 PDT 153 of 471
I'm saying I don't see any concrete proof yet.
That is why God invented the subpoena duces tecum, interrogatories, and depositions.
Is there anything to all of this? I have no idea. Ought to be VERY interesting to watch what develops.
black*max (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 14:59 PDT 154 of 471
Max, who authenticates the goods? In the case of purse's return, who authenticated that?
I have no idea, they never said who did only who don't.
Many cases the buyer is required to show proof, has that not been posted here many times?
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tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 15:12 PDT 155 of 471
if theyre selling the fake goods, then that's of course a major issue.
if theyre selling only the non-fake ones that have been shipped in due to a SNAD claim, and the seller is getting the money taken out of their acct for the claim, then that's a huge issue as well.
either way, it looks very dirty (esp. with that one manifest that has paypal claim numbers).
dimesy1 (0 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 15:25 PDT 156 of 471
Working backwards, a Coach Hamptons black tote sold in this lot, was later resold on eBay.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
One interesting thing is the manifest for that lot that shows what appears to be a PP return #.
There was no indication on either of the selling sites about any imperfections that would prompt a return, but it's possible it was originally returned to paypal for an entirely innocuous reason, if indeed that is a PP #.
One other interesting thing is that the tote doesn't seem to resemble anything else in this particular Coach collection, but I know very little about high-end purses - maybe it's a discontinued style.
Yet another interesting thing is that the eBay price was at least $300 below anything on the official Coach site. Such a deal!
alenalara (1156 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 15:43 PDT 157 of 471
dimesy1, good research.
I question why would anything be returned to Paypal?? They only handle the money. Shouldn't the seller get their product back if it was a return?
And yes, it is very interesting how cheap one can sell a Coach purse, there are people at the Purse Forum that can identify fakes, maybe send the question over that way?
bubbles*up*ones*whoopsie-daisy (35 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 15:55 PDT 158 of 471
There are a couple of items on that manifest with quotes around the designer name (copied and pasted below)
"Louis Vuitton" black wallet
New "Coach" 3572 gold mosiac purse
Does this mean they know they are fakes?
tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 16:21 PDT 159 of 471
^ i was wondering the same thing. That's what one of the big sellers of beads for crafters does when stones are fake, they put quotes around it (ie: "gaspeite").
Do not have any facts, but my observations are that the manifest linked to on their site is pretty d**ning evidence. Regardless of how they attained them, they took the seller money for thier return, if they are legit, then the seller should be recieving the proceeds of those items back.
I am not an attorney, but if I were one, within legal jurisdiction for such, this has all the makings to be a win win looking class action suit against anyone whom has fallen to such recovery of goods to this site to be resold.
Be nice to see someone latch onto this and print that evidence before it goes away for good. I would almost bet that those are indeed PP Case #'s
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 16:51 PDT 161 of 471
I do beleive this stuff happens. If you ever visit flea Markets you will find stuff that store have gotten rid of because of a problem and you will find vendors there selling it. Like the bad dog food as one example.
God Bless America.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 16:54 PDT 162 of 471
Stores liquidate returns every day, recapture cash, often though the manufacturer takes it back first, but what the manufacturer does with it once they get those returns is anyone's guess.
My guess? Send it to such companies to recapture assets like this one that paypal 'works' with.
Only paypal rarely (I'm saying this because I've never heard of it, ever) pays back the seller and the buyer.
I would love to hear one story where both parties were paid back and paypal then was clear to sell off and gain financially from SNAD claimed merchandise they had sent to this company.
rr212 (33 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 17:25 PDT 163 of 471
Plenty of designer bags & more here
www.liquidation.com/list/all/cta/1.html
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 17:42 PDT 164 of 471
Has anyone ever heard of Portero?
Very interesting site.
shabbychicandpink (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:01 PDT 165 of 471
Just because they sell designer bags on their website does not mean they are selling the ones that are sent to them to be destroyed.
Stop with all the speculation!
tulsaguy5 (10 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:04 PDT 166 of 471
Just because they sell designer bags on their website does not mean they are selling the ones that are sent to them to be destroyed.
True, it doesnt. But the fact that we've never heard about seller getting to keep the $ when paypal refunds a SNAD and paypal is then selling the items is a huge issue and such actions are the grounds for class action lawsuit and possibly criminal actions as well.
ruthl416 (130 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:09 PDT 167 of 471
Google Portero
See: Portero.com Mini Review: Mediorce Used Watch Retailer Disguised As...
This is a blog talking about Portero, the owner
Michael Shelton of Portero appears in the comments section and
explains who he is and what he does, He is a
former seller on eBay andtalks about why he created
the site.
(Take from what you will)
~~T&S KKC Member#51~~
the_fancy_fox (838 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:20 PDT 168 of 471
Stop with all the speculation!
That fakes have been found to have been sold on their site and that they receive all the PayPal SNAD complaint items enough to tell you there is a conflict of interest?
I am not saying that the PayPal sent SNAD items were sold by this company. I am saying that the appearance it gives is very bad.
Follow the money trail. Do you think PayPal pays these people to check the items? I would believe that its more probably they cut a deal.
What bothers me is that there is no doubt that legitimate items where returned to this company and the seller had the reversal against their account causing them the loss of item and money. If the item IS legitimate, the seller should receive that item back or be paid for it!
This is just so wrong on so many levels.
Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
shabbychicandpink (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:25 PDT 169 of 471
SO Purse Couture - did you get a refund or not? It looks like you did. It appears to have been the expected hassle, but you ended up with a refund?
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:34 PDT 170 of 471
Yes. 2 refunds.
One refund without returning the knock off I received to ANYONE, not even the seller (it's still here in my possession, WTF am I gonna do with a counterfeit bag?), and one refund for returning that one to PayPal for review for authenticity at the Texas address.
The refund without a return was IMMEDIATE, and believe it or not, more $$$$.
The refund with a return to that address in Texas was a chore. THAT refund gave me the "be nice to the seller when you leave feedback" note.
shabbychicandpink (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:40 PDT 171 of 471
Thanks, just wanted to be sure I read your previous post correctly.
RE: Speculation because no one has heard of anyone getting a refund
So that's proof of 2 refunds. People aren't likely to come to SC and post that they got a refund like Purse did. They are more likely to post a problem. Purse posted her experience because this thread was started and it was relevant.
nancybusinraleigh (2968 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:47 PDT 172 of 471
Refund to the BUYER only, the seller loses product and money.
Big difference.
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:47 PDT 173 of 471
Shabby, I was the BUYER on both.
The question is IF the sellers DID get refunds which I KNOW they did NOT.
spcmillerswife (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:49 PDT 174 of 471
They of course rely on this information for those items to be given to them and if this is not being done, then PayPal would be in error here, not liquidity services Inc.
But they're being sent bags which were returned for the mere fact that they were fakes, so they would have to know. And if it is generally illegal to sell these fakes, then Liquidity would be at fault. Their legal department would have a tough time saying "they didn't know." eBay sellers aren't allowed to say that, so a big company like Liquidity certainly wouldn't be able to say that.
spcmillerswife (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 18:51 PDT 175 of 471
What bothers me is that there is no doubt that legitimate items where returned to this company and the seller had the reversal against their account causing them the loss of item and money. If the item IS legitimate, the seller should receive that item back or be paid for it!
It bothers me too, but I think that is exactly what PP wants - REAL bags returned.
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 19:01 PDT 176 of 471
OK, so let's look at it this way:
Buyer sends the knock off widget to the "AHEM" PayPal address in Texas.
PayPal refunds buyer.
The money transaction is between the SELLER/BUYER then PAYPAL/BUYER.
Why would PayPal send something to a third party? So the third party can VERIFY it and subsequently DESTROY it?
Why wouldn't PayPal THEMSELVES get it and destroy it? Why the middleman?
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 19:07 PDT 177 of 471
Which brings me to the PayPal video on YOU TUBE of the guy that recorded the phone call......the amplifier guy.
I *think* his "already repainted expensive amplifier" was in the possession of yet ANOTHER third party (collections agency?) and THEY told him "you have X amount of days to come get your widget OR else"
Go to YOU TUBE and search this:
Paypal collection call follow-up to the truth about Paypal
spcmillerswife (13 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 19:12 PDT 178 of 471
In general - does Liquidity buy other "lots" outright, then sell them, or do they sell them and return the money to the original owner, taking a percentage for themselves?
Good way to somewhat launder money....
purse*couture (4697 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 19:15 PDT 179 of 471
Now now.......could THIS be THEM...............
www.centredaily.com/business/technology/story/669298.html
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 20:14 PDT 180 of 471
you betcha.....I have inside info but not willing to share to protect the innocent
God Bless America.
shabbychicandpink (Private ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 20:19 PDT 181 of 471
Oh, ok. I assumed from your ID that you were the seller.
duckie*** (120 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 20:25 PDT 182 of 471
no but I have a SIL(fbi agent) that worked with ebay with fake rolexes if you really need to knowGod Bless America.
allaboutsewing (394 ) View Listings | Report Jul-02-08 20:58 PDT 183 of 471
www.tdpri.com/forum/bad-dog-cafe/72074-paypal-steals-telecaster-guitar.html
Paypal Steals Telecaster Guitar
This is heads up warning for all whom sell guitars with non fender parts. I recently sold a partscaster guitar to a guy who used Paypal to pay for it. The guitar was previously listed on ebay but was not sold via ebay. The ebay add described the guitar as a 12 string conversion using Fender and non Fender parts. It clearly stated the neck was not a fender product in spite of the aftermarket decals on it. After receiving the guitar the buyer described it as a beautiful and very well done conversion but wanted to return it for a full refund because "it did not sing to him". I did not offer to accept returns in the ebay add so I declined his request. He filed a "significantly not as described" claim at Paypal stating it was not genuine Fender and won the claim for a full refund. Paypal had him ship the guitar to PAYPAL RETURNS, 12750 Perimeter Drive, Suite 154, Dallas, Texas 75228 for destruction. I have confirmation from the buyer that it was delivered to PAY PAL RETURNS by UPS on 26 March, 2007. I have since learned that PAYPAL RETURNS is a LIQUIDATOR and they are selling the so-called counterfeit guitar. Oh yes, they refunded the buyer from my paypal funds and kept the sellers fee they charged me as well. Paypal never allowed me to respond in any my property.